Episode 11: Being Radical: Balancing the New Vision vs Old Vision
Transitioning old visions to newer ones can be hard, especially when it is strongly tied to your family. In this episode, Amy Vetter interviews Jody Padar, CEO and Principal of New Vision CPA Group, about radically changing visions in a family business. In this discussion, Jody shares her journey from public accounting to eventually taking over her father's firm. She gives her leadership perspective on what it takes to transform a client base with technology, how to take over a family business, and how to keep your staff on board in the process. She also shows us how she managed to balance work with family along the way while never forgetting how being intentional in the workplace paves you to become a great leader.
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Being Radical: Balancing the New Vision vs Old Vision
We have Jody Padar on this episode. She is the CEO and Principal of the New Vision CPA Group in Chicago. She is an author, lecturer, coach, consultant and mentor. She uses her breadth of experience in innovative technology and change management. She has shared her expertise on the new firm business model with the AICPA, CPA Trendlines and Accounting Today. She is one of the top 100 most influential people in Accounting Today since 2011 and is also in Accounting Today Managing Partner Elite since 2015. She’s one of the top ten money and finance writers on LinkedIn's Top Voices list. Her two books include The Radical CPA: New Rules for the Future-Ready Firm and From Success to Significance: The Radical CPA Guide. She shares her journey from public accounting to eventually taking over her father's firm. She gives her perspective on what it takes to transform a client base with technology, taking over a family business, keeping your staff onboard in the process and how to balance work with family in the process.
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I am with Jody Padar. Jody, give a little background on yourself before we begin.
I'm Jody Padar, The Radical CPA. I'm a branded CPA. Realistically, I'm a firm owner. I own my own firm. Ultimately, I joined my dad but pretty much, it's my own firm for several years. That was after coming off of some not so nice other firms. I have several years of experience in firms that were not so nice. I said, “I could do it better.” I left those midsize firms and said, “I'm going to do it better.” What was happening was the technology was changing at that time. The cloud was coming. We called it the internet back then. It changed how you would work with your clients. I pretty much evolved the new business model of what the cloud firm was. I was the one who was doing it. I was in the trenches figuring it out. Many years later, I still run my firm. I act as a consultant to the profession. I have a media company with almost 700,000 followers on LinkedIn. People had told me that social media was a fad. I'm happy to help the profession move forward because there are lots of beautiful businesses. I think what all CPAs need is a little bit of help to get to the technology you need to be.
I want to start with your father's firm. When you’re a little girl, was it your dream to become a CPA? Was this something that your father had taught you about when you were younger?
Absolutely not. I grew up in a firm. I always say that. When I was a little girl, my dad would go to CCH, Computax at the time, he’ll drop off tax returns and pick them up. I would make appointments in an appointment book when clients call.
How old were you?
I was eight years old. As soon as I was able to write in that appointment book, people would call and I would make the appointments. I knew how to do that. Tax has been always part of our life but I hated tax season. I knew that my life was always revolving around tax season. We did special things during tax season, but we never got to go on spring break or do anything like that. I took accounting when I was in high school. I really liked my teacher. I did well at it. When I was looking at colleges, I wanted to be a social worker or a psychologist. My dad said, “Social work is great but when you graduate, you're not going to get a job. Why don't you try and pick something else?” I picked accounting because I was good at it. It's funny because social work and accounting are similar anyway. You do a lot of social work in accounting. I met most of those needs. If you look at me, what I do is business development and sales and marketing, which is not accounting. I think your career evolves as you figure out what you like and what you don't like. I don't think I knew enough when I went to school to become an accountant what I liked.
Would you give that advice to somebody that they wouldn't get a job if they went on a certain path?
I would go with the fast that it has nothing to do with your major. It has to do with your personality, your drive and what you want to do. It has nothing to do with your major as to what you're going to do with your life moving forward. My dad has an opinion that if I had a profession, then I would be employable. It's funny because I have a good friend who has multiple Master’s, but her dad used to say, “Why didn't you go to school like Jody and become an accountant? Then you would have a job.”
It's interesting because it's a generational thing. I was told the same thing. I wanted to go to design school. Every time I looked at those kids in college, I was like, “I would love to be in that building with you.” It’s the same reason for a safe and secure career. You're good at Math. What I found interesting about the advice as I've gotten older is the same advice. In other professions, it's not for sure job versus accounting and accounting is not a for sure job. They will do right out. You've got to work hard to prove yourself because you have an accounting degree. It’s definitely an issue. It's important to understand those belief systems that we grew up with. As we get older, how do we pivot or figure out what makes sense for us?
What happened was when I was in that firm, I was frustrated by the practice management and the firm itself.
Is it your father’s firm?
No, the firm where I once in. I worked at two mid-sized firms prior to start joining my dad and build his firm. When I worked in those firms, part of my frustration was not that they were doing things wrong. There was a better way to do it, but also the frustration that I get the job that I was doing. It made me look for a better way. That's the innovation in me, but I was very frustrated looking at work papers, making journal entries, doing all that stuff. What I found was as I utilized technology, I could change that. That helped me figure out how I like to work and not work difficulty.
That's important, especially for young accountants to realize that the job you start doesn't mean that that's your future career. We all have to go through the groundwork to learn what accounting is. I remember during that period of time, people running away. They immediately quit instead of, “What's the next best thing that we can do with this?” At times, you have to step back and be like, “I committed to this expertise. I committed to this specialty. How do I make this so I can enjoy this in a different way?”
I do a lot of sales and marketing in my job, Biz Dev and stuff like that. It's funny because I always say, “If I were a marketer, I would never be as popular as I am.” I have that technical skill that I can connect to. If I were a regular marketer, I don't think I would be successful. It’s foundational and I don't think you know what you want to do until you know what you don't want to do. The only way you know what you don't want to do is to do it and say, “That's not what I want to do.” I wish it was easier.
You went to firms before you went into your dad's practice. When you're going into your dad's practice, what kind of conversations did you have to enter it? He had a traditional practice and you're coming in with ideas. How do you approach that?
We didn't do it the right way. I left my firm because I was frustrated. I said, “I came off a bad tax season. Dad, I'm joining you.” The first thing he said is, “Go and find your own clients.” He taught me how to build a business, which was good. I'm happy that I learned all that stuff, but I never thought about it because I was going to join him. We didn't have that conversation. Prior to that, my husband used to call him the tax pimp. Any accountant who's looking to start a practice, they start doing stuff on the side. I was starting to do stuff on the side, but my dad would make me pay an overhead fee to him to use the software. That's why my husband named him the tax pimp.
What happened was once I started to build a business, it was always like, “Yes, we were partners,” but he was still calling all the shots. We started to have discussions around succession as I was building things and changing things. That's when the discussions started. If I were to go through it again, I would say document. You tell your client that but when you're in the middle of it, you think, “My dad and I agreed to this. This is going to happen.” Years later, he was still hanging on. We never said when his exit was, we never went through all the succession things that we should have.
Looking back, I would change it but we made it through the power struggles. We made it through the family business of it, which is not always easy. My mom had a rough time for a little bit where she was the go-between. I had my nephew working for us and I fired my nephew. There were a lot of things about a family business that people don't realize. Truly, it's my firm. My dad is retired and he's proud of me. It's not the firm that I joined. It has nothing to do with my dad anymore. It's a good thing, but it's interesting because I originally had said, “I'm never going to leave his legacy clients behind unless we got rid of most of them.” The reason is that became a business decision. At a certain point, you have to say, “How do I move this business forward?” Tough decisions have to be made.
If they don't want to go in the new direction and it doesn't fit the model.
Transitioning Business Visions: Your career evolves as you figure out what you like and what you don't like.
If it doesn't fit the model anymore, it doesn't fit the model. My dad's clients were with us for a long period of time. Some of them called and still resolved their way back into them. They were persistent, even though we fire them. They jump back in. If they pleaded enough, they got to come back. It's been an interesting perspective to see how it used to be.
One of my closest friends, she's like a sister. She's a veterinarian, not an accountant. I ended up entering into her father's veterinary practice after college. She has talked about how they had their own personal family triggers. It would happen at work and she would get triggered. He didn't even know that he was triggering her. This is something that went on internally for her. She recoiled and then get stressed out until she finally had the conversation with them and said, “You may not realize this but when you do X, you put me back in my fifteen-year-old body. We have to figure out a new way of communication so that I can be happy doing what I am doing.”
It's a power struggle too. That's a regular succession issue. On the other side of it, where I think that I did excel and I was able to succeed was because he was my father and he wanted me to be successful. That's different than a lot of these younger partners who are fighting with old school partners. They have a monetary interest, but they don't have a personal interest to want their child to be a success. I think because of that, he stepped back more than maybe someone else will because he wanted me to grow and treated me like that father-daughter relationship. There are pluses and minuses and that we’re in the end of it with all water under the bridge. He always says, “I am the old vision, she's the new vision.”
How did you come to terms with that together, both of you? You've got to approach having a conversation about having a new vision.
It was a process. It was a long time. Several years ago, he officially retired because I kicked him out. I gave him a surprise retirement for him. I had talked to my mom and said, “He's retiring.” I finally said, “You're not coming into the office anymore.” It wasn't that he was bad, there was no way we could move forward. He still comes around. He still sneaks stuff in but not work-related. It’s more of he uses my admin to do his condos. That was the official point where I said, “This is it. You're officially retired.” Prior to that, we had gone through succession for years. He was ready to retire too. It takes both sides. He's almost 80 years old, it's not like he's a spring chicken.
CPAs never want to retire. They keep their brains going. What kind of leadership style do you think you bring from things you've learned along the way that you try to instill in your team?
There are two big takeaways. I would even credit my dad to telling me that this was one of the things that he taught me. He did teach me a lot, but he said that I manage by consensus and you can't manage by consensus. It was funny because I think I did. I think I got a stronger backbone in making decisions. Part of that is probably the female in me, that people pleaser, everybody's got to agree to this. I can't think of a specific example, but it wasn't until he called me out on it that I realized how much I was doing it. I thought that was good. The other thing that I've learned along the way is to be more direct. Whether you love me or hate me, I'm direct. That's one of the things that I learned from a leadership perspective along the way.
How did you get the confidence to be more direct?
When you make enough mistakes and you see the tangible financial impact that they have on your business, all of a sudden, those lessons become a lot easier. When you are in charge of the business for many years, that business is going to grow. You're going to make financial decisions. Some of those financial decisions aren't going to be the right decisions and you have to course correct it. When that's hitting your pocket, you get to be more direct. I don't think you get that until you have that P&L responsibility. It's easy to be direct when you know it's hitting your bottom line. A lot of managers, I don't think ever got that because they never have that P&L responsibility. Their decisions don't have a material and financial impact on moving forward. When it's your own firm, you're not getting paid for all your hard work, all of a sudden those decisions become one material to your life and you're willing to stand up for more than I think you were.
It's interesting that you bring that up because it hit a memory. When I ran my practice, I changed the compensation for my staff to be more owner-like where they would get hit for write-offs and going over time because it was easy for them to say, “Can we write this off?” I feel bad. It took me too long and so forth. Also, they weren't efficient in a job so if you valued billing, the whole thing is to get efficiency. That's why your automation, everything else. If they're not being efficient and they're taking too long, you have to redo their work. At the end of the day, the owner is accountable because it is your business. It's your reputation. There are some employees that they might have great personalities, but they can't get the work done. What I started doing was giving them a bonus every six months. It was a six-month look back. If they build more, if they took on more clients, they could make more bonuses, but they got dock every time we wrote stuff off because they had to feel what I felt when we read that.
When that happens, they become more direct. They become more intentional with what they're doing. I think that was the biggest leadership lesson that I learned from being an employee to being a business owner was becoming intentional about what I was doing in my business versus just working. You have to become intentional because you're looking at the future, not in the past.
No one understands the pressure of the owner besides it's a very lonely position. A lot of times, you have to make decisions where employees feel it's harsh. It's the only decision you can make. You can't explain every decision you make, nor is it good for all employees to know all the back end struggles you're having. There's an authenticity that needs to come through where you share what you share, but there are certain things about a business that only the business owner going to know. It's a thinkless position when you're trying to keep everything going.
The other thing is people think about it from the perspective of the business owner makes the money. I never thought of it for me making money. I always thought about it for me taking care of my employees. I never thought of it as if we didn't make enough money, how we were going to take care of them, instead of taking care of me. I don't always think employees get that.
There are things that we can show. There are ways to celebrate. There are ways of awarding people who are going to take whatever they're going to take from an individual basis. How do you nurture the people that you have so that they know that they are important and that is your goal, not about making money?
I love my people.
It takes a lot of time to get the team that you need.
It's amazing because as we've grown in size, we've reduced in people because we've automated so much. We're down to two-and-a-half full-time equivalents in my firm, one being my partner. She totally has accountability. She was my first hire and my partner. She’s been with me for several years. My other half, she's doing wealth management. She's my partner on my wealth management side. Technically, she's a partner too. I have two partners. She's with me for a few years. We have our admin who's been with me for a couple of years. They've been with me along this journey. They've stepped up when things weren't always great. They dealt with me as things were changing a lot. They iterated to me. From that perspective, we're joined at the hip.
How were they honest back with you during that time period when you were making shifts? How did you take their feedback?
My partner, Alex, everybody laughs at me because they don't understand how we get along. She is my absolute polar opposite. She is execution. She is detailed. She gets it done always on it. I am totally in sales and marketing. We spar. Usually, we come around a couple of days later to come to a mutual agreement, but it's because of her that we got to where we are. I guarantee you, you need people who are not like you to move a business forward. We know that. We stay in our lanes. If I cross over, she kicks me back. She says, “Go back to your side.”
Part of the problem is that a lot of times, we want to hire someone that thinks like me because we'll agree with each other all the time. The problem is, when you're not challenged, you don't come up with something better in the end. Because of that challenge, a lot of times, it gets annoying and then you step back, you're like, “They have a point.”
Transitioning Business Visions: You have to become intentional on your tasks because you're looking at the future, not in the past.
That’s the reason why my dad and I are more alike than we' dislike. That's why when Alex and I work together, we are the right opposite. We both respect each other. After so long, you just go to your side and you know it’s going to be fine. You'll come back together eventually.
How has your career shifts and pivots affected your own relationships in your life, whether good or bad? What are some things that you've noticed that you've had to change about your work life and even in your life that isn't serving you? Isn't serving the people around you? How do you take stock in that?
This is an interesting perspective because being a female business owner and having a husband at home, who is ultimately supporting your business. When I started, I was making almost nothing, now we're doing fine and my business is doing great. He was always the one who had benefits as we evolved. It had a big impact on our marriage, on our kids' life and everything. From my perspective, I love my job. If I was still at that another firm, I would be miserable. It would affect my home life too. I work all the time, but I work on my time, which is very different. When I say I work all the time, I work when I need to work and I don't work when I don't want to. It's not like I can say, “I worked many hours a week.” I wouldn't even know what to tell you what my hours are because of that flexibility. It's given me the opportunity to be with my kids when they were a little younger. Now that they're older, they travel with me. They love that. For my daughter, it's shown that women can be successful and women can be business owners.
For my son, who cracks me up because he's totally a mama's boy. I'll never forget this because he was upset one time that I wasn't home, picking him up from school or someone's mom was home. He said something, “Mom, you're always at work. Do you make six figures?” I go, “Yes.” He goes, “I'm glad that it’s all worth it.” I found over time it comes down to their stuff because you can think all that and then you're like, “I'll quit.” He goes, “What does that mean for me? Will I lose this?” I think about it from a perspective of what the next generation female business owner was going to be like. If these kids are being raised with strong, successful moms who change their perspective, I think that’s good.
He's also seeing your husband support you in it, which is important. A lot of times, it's hard for a woman to do that if they don't have that open communication with their husband of like, “I need support here and there in order for us both to achieve our career aspirations.” All the statistics are that mostly the women take on most of the household stuff, even though they're trying to grow their career. If you don't speak up and have the confidence to do that, then it creates the end fight.
What's funny too is my husband was always at a 9:00 to 5:00 job, a regular corporate job. He's always had insurance benefits. He travels very limitedly. It's always given me the flexibility to do what I want. The other thing about it, which is pretty interesting is he's been very proud and supportive of me. My favorite story from my husband is when we were on the bus. I think it was a staged event and we were going to the Killers concert and someone said to him, “Why are you here? I do sales for the North East region.” My husband said, “I'm Mr. Jody Padar and I follow her around.” To hear him say that to another gentleman on the bus, I wasn't in that conversation. I was sitting behind him with somebody else. I thought that was like, “I got to keep him here.” There are a lot of women who don't have that. That's what allows me to do what I do.
On those lines, whether it's your personal relationships or people you work with, when we talk about being with someone that's not exactly like you, being an entrepreneur or being a leader, it gets put out there, but not everyone can be that. You can be a good employee. You can be a good manager. You can be good at doing the stuff that's not business development that's needed. Every entrepreneur needs that person. I have a yoga studio and my studio manager is a perfect offset for me because I'm out there cranking business. She's in there and nurturing what's going on during the day. If we weren't a match like that, the business wouldn't do as well as it does. It's important for people to not feel like they have to be a business owner. Be okay with who you are and shine in whatever that is.
Being an entrepreneur is hard. I don't mean it's harder than any other thing but it's like, “I'm the weirdo.”
I feel that way too. I can’t stop it.
I finally accepted it at my old age. I'm not going to fit in. I might as well do my own thing. That too comes with age. When I am younger, it was always like, I know when I walk in a room. Typically, they're all men who are older than me and that I'm crossing over into tech, it's even more so. They're younger than me, but instead of being like, “I don't say it with them.” I'm like, “I am who I am.” They're either going to accept me or not. If they don't, I'm not in the right place. When I was younger, I didn't necessarily have that self-confidence to do that. I was more concerned that they're all different than I am.
You feel like you have to fit in, shine and be who you are.
Once you learned who that person, it takes time. You never know. You keep evolving. Once you figured that out, then everything else falls into place.
I would like to end with some rapid-fire questions. You get to pick your categories. It's family and friends, health, spiritual or money.
I'm an accountant so let's go with the money.
What are the things or actions with money that I don't have that I want?
I want to win the lottery. I haven't won the lottery yet.
What about that you do have that you want with money?
I think realistically, money's behavioral. A lot of people think that money is the market, finance and return on investment. At the end of the day, we all know money's behavioral. The good thing about money is that you always have enough. It's what you choose to prioritize on. What I mean is I know that I'm not homeless, I know that I'm employable and all that stuff, but I believe that most people do have those opportunities but they choose to behaviorally waste away their money. They're using it to fill the void with something else. It's all about priorities and what's important to you, whether you make $10 an hour or you make $50 an hour because believe me, I deal with clients who make over $1 million a year. The amount is a mindset and the behavior set.
With money, what are the things that I don't have that I don't want?
I'm happy with where I'm at. In a perfect world, it would be cool if my children could go to any school they wanted without having to worry about financial aid. When I say financial aid, the price of college and all of that stuff.
Transitioning Business Visions: A lot of people think that money is the market, finance, and return on investment but it is actually behavioral.
With money, you want to make sure that happens for them.
That's something that I like for them. If they wanted to go somewhere that costs $75,000 a year, that I could do it and not think twice about it. I'm not at that point yet. I'll say money goals.
Is there anything that you would want to make sure that the readers have as a message from this or to know about you before we close up?
The thing that I want them to know about me is that my career was very curvy. It wasn't straight up. A lot of people think that you can look from the outside and think you got there. It took me a long time to get here. It took me five times to pass the CPA. I'm happy with where I'm at, but I never knew that I would be here. It's weird because you think you have this vision of what your career's going to look like and it's totally different than anything you've ever expected. I was in Singapore and I spoke at a conference there. This is cool because years ago, I started blogging. I became a pretty popular blogger. The reason I was blogging was because of the things needed to change and nobody was doing anything. I was like, “I'm going to start blogging.” I started using social media to spread the word.
Years later, I'm on a keynote in Singapore and then ending it on the 57th floor of the most iconic pool in the world, spreading those same blog ideas to the world. When people say like, “What have you done? What are you most proud of?” I'll say, “I'm changing the world.” To say that my idea is to change the world, I have changed the world. They only changed the world because I wasn't afraid to put them out there and speak up. That's the thing that I think people need to know. It didn't happen overnight, but if you have something important to say, say it. The people who get you will get it. Somehow, it will become a movement. If they don't get you, then you don't need them anyway. Your ideas can change the world. To me, that's what's worth it. That's the fact that I'm impacting the next generation of accountants. It's not the money. Everything has a purpose and that's my why. That's why people connect to me too is because I am strongly connected to my why, just like you're connected to the yoga. That's truly who you are. When it gets tough and you don't know what to do or the move to make, if you can reconnect to that why, you can make that decision.
Thank you so much for joining me. It is a great conversation. I'm sure a lot of people will get stuff out of it.
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It’s time to take a step back from the conversation with myself and Jody to take some mindful moments and be able to absorb some of the great knowledge that Jody shared about her journey. There were a number of things in our conversation that I took note of that I think is important. One of them is about going into a family business. No matter if it's a CPA firm or any family business, when we are mixing work and family, it's always hard. How you navigate that is important so that you protect your relationships as you go through the process. You also respect people's experience and expertise. The fact that another family member might have started this business. It's like an arm to them that they were born with. Separating themselves from a business and allowing someone to step in those shoes can be an emotional path. That's where we do bring our mindfulness into the workplace where we can be present for someone going through that and also have compassion for what they're experiencing.
At the same token, when we are bringing in somebody into our business, when is the right time to let go and have those real succession talks? Jody talked about how important it is to document the agreements that you have, whether this is a family business or not. It's important that when you come to compromise that these things are documented so that you can take the emotions out of it when there are issues, you can come back to those things. One of the points that she made that’s important is throughout her transition with our father, she knew that at the same time, her father cared about her wellbeing. He wanted the best for her daughter. Sometimes when we are going through succession in our businesses, that's the hard part to do when someone's not related to you and you're not personally involved.
It's important that we treat everyone with the same care. If we have decided that someone can step up to the role and take the business in a new direction and take it forward, that we honor them for that as well. Give them the trust that they need and empower them to achieve what they need to as well. When they see you empower them and you trust them, their success can be so much greater than when they feel like they might be disappointing you if they make their own decision or it goes against something that you would have normally done. It's finding compassion from both sides as we move through. This can even be when we're a leader in a company. We need to look for bench strength as well with our staff to make sure that we are letting people know how we feel about the people around them so that everyone else views them as a leader as well and that they have a future stepping into a leadership role as well.
The other thing that Jody talked about that was important is how we make our decisions in life. One of the things that she talked about was when she went into this field because her family felt like it was a safe career. I think a lot of us pick careers because that's what we're good at. If someone tells us to go in a certain direction. As Jody talked about it, she was getting in the career, there were pieces of it that may have not fit for her. That's important that she crafted her own path. A lot of times, when we go to school and we're in those initial jobs, we have no idea what it’s going to turn into one day. The biggest thing that we can do, no matter what stage of career we're in, is to keep our eyes open to opportunities. Always be aware of the world around you and figure out how you can use the expertise you have to continue to pivot. To continue to create that excitement in the work that you do so that you don't get stale as well.
She had some great points about leadership where her father had given her the advice of not managing by consensus and being more direct. That's all about making sure that you're being intentional about the decisions you are making. When the people around you know that you care about them personally and this isn't to harm anyone, people can respect you at a different level as you're making decisions. Even if they disagree with you, they know that you care at the end of the day. You're showing your team that loyalty. Part of her story was how she's had the staff that's been with her since the beginning. They have been through the ups and downs. They have seen each other at their worst and at their best. To know that not everybody has to feel the exact same way as you in order to make progress, that we become better when we have the debates, when we have people with different ideas in the room. Think about who is your support system at home or at work? Understand how to nurture those relationships so not only you thrive, but everybody around you thrives as well.
Important Links:
@JodyPadarCPA on Twitter
About Jody Padar
Jody Padar is CEO and principal of New Vision CPA Group in Chicago. Her background as an author, lecturer, coach, consultant and mentor gives her a breadth of experience in innovation, technology and change management.
Jody has shared her expertise on the “new firm” business model with the AICPA, CPA Trendlines and Accounting Today. She has been quoted by Bloomberg, Forbes and The Washington Post and regularly contributes to QuickBooks’ blog.
One of the Top 100 Most Influential People by Accounting Today since 2011, Jody is also an Accounting Today Managing Partner Elite since 2015, and one of the Top 10 Money & Finance Writers on LinkedIn’s Top Voices list.
She earned her BBA from Saint Mary’s College and MST from Northern Illinois University. She is also an adjunct professor at Oakton Community College and contributing member of the Intuit Trainer Writer Network. Jody is a member of AICPA and MACPA.
Her two books include The Radical CPA: New Rules for the Future-Ready Firm and From Success to Significance: A Radical CPA Guide
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