Episode 173: Joy, Trust, And Innovation: The 3 Pillars Of Culture With Bob Doyle
Culture built on joy, trust, and innovation can transform teams and drive lasting impact. Bob Doyle, President and CEO of the Michigan Association of Certified Public Accountants (MICPA), shares his personal and professional journey, including his experience with family loss and his career transition from environmental engineering to association leadership. He discusses how these three pillars shape his organization’s approach to advocacy, collaboration, and education. Drawing on personal experiences of loss, career pivots, and leadership lessons, Bob explains how gratitude, intentional routines, and work-life integration strengthen both leaders and the communities they serve.
---
Listen to the podcast here
Joy, Trust, And Innovation: The 3 Pillars Of Culture With Bob Doyle
Welcome to this episode of Breaking Beliefs, where I interviewed Bob Doyle, the president and CEO of the Michigan Association of Certified Public Accountants. The MICPA serves over 17,500 members in accounting, finance, administration, and education, focusing on advocacy, collaboration, and education to support the accounting profession. Bob holds degrees in environmental engineering, engineering management, public relations, and organizational communication, which he uses to address both human and technological issues.
Before MICPA, he was vice president of marketing, communications, and advocacy at the Association for Advancing Automation and a marketing and communications manager at Environmental Quality Company after working in engineering roles at General Motors. He is active in the community, serving on various boards, including the Michigan Society of Association Executives and the CPA Society of Executives Association.
He is an alumnus of Leadership Detroit, serves on the external advisory board of the Pavlis Honors College at Michigan Technological University, and is on the executive advisory board of Winning Futures, where he also mentors high school students. During our discussion, Bob shares his personal and professional journey, including his experience with family loss and his career transition from environmental engineering to association leadership.
Bob discussed the importance of joy in the workplace and his organizational culture pillars while also touching on personal routines. We discussed the importance of work-life balance, the role of gratitude in personal development, and the connection between joy and business performance. I hope you enjoy this episode. There are so many great stories that Bob shares, and stories that you can take away and maybe apply to your own life.
---
Welcome to this episode of Breaking Beliefs. I'm very excited to be here with Bob Doyle, the CEO of the Michigan Association of CPAs. Bob, before we get started, do you want to tell the audience a little bit about what you do?
Thanks for inviting me, Amy. I was really looking forward to this conversation. The Michigan Association of CPAs we are the statewide association for all CPAs in the accounting profession throughout the state. I have the privilege and honor of leading the organization, and I get the chance to work with CPAs and members of the accounting profession. We have over 17,000 members ranging from those in public accounting to those in business and industry to educators, government, and anywhere where a CPA could work.
They’re part of our organization, and then students as well. We also have a college student membership. Our mission is to serve our members, to serve the CPA profession, and then, in turn, really serve the public, the clients, and the businesses that our members serve. We do it in three ways. We do it through advocacy. We do it through collaboration, and we do it through education. I have a wonderful team here, and that's our mission to serve the profession.
Culture: Our mission is to serve our members, the CPA profession, and in turn, the public.
Bob Doyle's Childhood: Loss & Resilience
You do have a wonderful team. I’ve worked with the Michigan Society for many years and always enjoyed being there. Would love just to start out talking about where you grew up, what your parents did for a living, just a little bit of your family background.
It's always important to know the background and how it leads to where people are today. I grew up in Michigan. I grew up in mid-Michigan near Lansing, the capital. I'm now in the Metro Detroit area, and I had a wonderful childhood. We'll get a little deep pretty quickly. Something that impacts me still today, that I have no problems sharing at all, is that I lost my mom when I was six years old.
She passed away from cancer. She was 39 and left behind my dad and five of us. I have four siblings, so there are five of us in the family range. I was in the first grade, and my oldest sister was in the eighth grade. There were five kids within about seven years after we lost my mom. It certainly was something that impacted me growing up, but then even now it still does today. We lost a parent that young, but I had a wonderful childhood.
My dad ended up remarrying and had a blended family, which was great. Also has challenges, of course, as well, like any blended family can. I graduated from high school and then went off to college in about as far away as you could go, but still in the state of Michigan at Michigan Tech University, and in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. For those who are familiar with Michigan, they call God's country up in the UP. That was my journey as a child.
What cancer does your mom have?
She had leukemia. Something she was diagnosed with back when I was in kindergarten, and fought it valiantly for about a year and a half or so. I just turned 50 this year.
I'm 51, so there you go.
Back in 1982, she passed. It's something. I've had cancer in my family. Actually, both of my sisters have had cancer. Fortunately, they've come out of it both times, which is fantastic. It's something that I certainly have always been very cognizant of as I've grown up, and something I've always been assured that I try to lead a healthy lifestyle. That's very important to me as well. Hopefully, try to remain cancer-free. Cancer s***. I know many people who have dealt with it. I even just recently heard colleagues at MICPA, whose family members have dealt with it. It's unfortunate, but I don't think anyone knows anyone who hasn't been affected by cancer.
At six, do you have as many memories of your mom as your siblings do? Can you remember this time period?
I do actually. Believe it or not, I still have something that I treasure. My mom used to interview us on cassette tapes.
I did that too.
I still have them. As I say this now, I'm like, “I really need to get those into digital format just to make sure we save them.” That helped. I remember going through the grieving process of listening to those tapes, but I do have really good memories of her. I have one of my favorite photos. We actually here at the MICPA office, we did like a baby photo contest and I got one of my mom holding me. I was more of a not a baby, more of a toddler, maybe three years old or so.
She was holding me, and we were at a farm or something, and she was like petting a horse, and I was petting it too. We actually have a similar photo of my wife holding my son. He was about that age, petting a horse. We didn't really mean to do it, but it was, “It's like very similar.” I wish I had much longer memories of her, but I certainly do still remember those years.
Family Impact: Blended Families & Father's Influence
The family dynamic probably shifted a lot during that period of time. How did your father and your older siblings shift in that dynamic?
As I grew more into adulthood, I look back on it now. I'm blessed that my dad is still here today in great shape. He just turned 84. He still golfs twice a week, and I get to see him quite a bit, which is wonderful. He's always been my hero. When I came into adulthood and started my own family, I realized, “Man, he was 40 years old, widowed with five kids ranging in age from my sister, who was 14, and I was six. I cannot even imagine what he was going through.”
He was working full-time. He was an engineer. He worked at General Motors for his entire career in the Lansing area. I'm sure it was very challenging. As I said, it was several years later when he remarried, and we have a blended family, and a lot of good that came out of that, good memories, bringing families together, and everything. It certainly has impacted me and still does today. Especially now, I have two boys, 13 and 11, and I'd love for them to know their grandma. I have wonderful in-laws. They are with their Papa and their grandma. Those are just things that I think about now.
As far as your older siblings, did they take on a different role with you, like more of a parenting role, or would you say you were still able to have that sibling relationship?
I would say it's still a sibling relationship. I think my oldest sister probably did feel a little bit of that, I'm sure. I am still very close with all my siblings today, particularly my sisters. I think one of the reasons is because of what we went through all together as kids, and that has always kept us close. We still remember my mom. We try to get together on the anniversary of her death and remember her birthday, which was on Halloween. We always think of Halloween and our mom's birthday. We've been able to stay strong throughout it and well into adulthood.
When you said that your father was your hero, what things about him stand out that have been like values or traits when you say something like that?
I would say consistency. He was always just a very consistent dad. He was always there. He made it to baseball games when he played baseball, like my sister's softball games, my band concerts, and anything. He was always there, which was wonderful. Just a role model as well. He was faith-driven. We were always at church every Sunday, which certainly has impacted me today. I would say all those things. Always being there and always being a support to his kids, I would say, is heroic for sure.
I volunteered when I was in high school with an organization in Cincinnati that was for grieving children. The premise of it was that the woman who had started it had lost her son in a car accident. She and her husband were grieving so much that her other son at one point said, “I'm still alive.” She started this organization, and every evening it would be a different type of death with children. It would be support groups. I was trained as a facilitator. It would be if you lost a sibling or if you lost a parent or if it was cancer versus an accident because all that grief is so different.
One of the things that I thought was so nice about that atmosphere is the kids could grieve and say how they felt or the things that were happening at school that they felt different or on the outside, and have that support network where people weren't saying, “You should be over it already and not feel anything.” People would say, “Isn't that depressing?” It was not a depressing place. It was a place where all the kids could feel whole.
I can see how that would be super helpful. As a child, I went through counseling, grief counseling, and something that I look back on and was very helpful. I've always shared that I've certainly gone through counseling even as an adult, too, in different stages of my life, and something that I don't think that we should be ashamed of. We should encourage it and especially for men, that it's something that it's okay to know that you need help. That's something that I've always been a big supporter of as well, and talking about it throughout my life.
From Dreams To Engineering: Bob Doyle's Career Path
It is so important and such a good example because I do think there are these biases or norms around men that this isn't talked about as openly, where for women, we have conferences and coaching and all of these things, where it's more open talking about these things. Appreciate you bringing that up and being so transparent about it as well. When you were a kid, what did you dream about being like? What was it that you wanted to do when you got older?
My first dream was to be an astronaut. I remember that. I watched the movie Space Camp as a kid, and I thought that was so cool and wanted to go into space. I think I probably wanted to be a baseball player, which ended in my high school career when I realized I probably wasn't going to do that. I guess this leads to my educational journey. It was in high school. I was always interested in the environment, and I had a great high school biology teacher that where I learned that you could become an environmental engineer as a career. That's where my career journey begins. If it's okay, we can jump in.
That's perfect.
Even though I lead the Michigan Association of CPAs, I'm not a CPA. I decided, and I was looking at different colleges. As I mentioned, I decided to go to Michigan Tech. They had an environmental engineering program that I got into. I was really excited about that. Speaking of my dad, he's actually a Michigan Tech alum as well. He was an engineer. We used to go up to the UP and visit the campus and everything when I was a kid. I think he didn't really push me, but I think he secretly hoped that at least one of his kids would go.
He finally got his last one. I'm the youngest, so to go. It was fantastic. It was a great experience, a wonderful university. I ended up graduating with a bachelor's degree in environmental engineering. That's how I really started my career. I got a job right out of college in the automotive industry. I did some co-op internships with General Motors. That's what brought me here down to the Metro Detroit area, where I've really been ever since working in the automotive industry.
Were you doing environmental engineering for GM?
I was.
What kind of role was that? What did that look like?
It's pretty broad. I worked mostly at a few different facilities where they made autom cars as well as parts like transmissions, or I worked on a metal fat plant, as well as assembly plants. As an environmental engineer, you deal with the environmental impacts of production, like looking at air, water, and waste, and environmental management systems, hazardous materials, and all that stuff. I really enjoyed it and loved working at GM.
I still always drive GM vehicles. There was a part of my job where I had the opportunity. There were some areas of some of the old facilities that I worked at that had contamination from the past. Before there was the EPA and regulations and everything. Because of that, we were cleaning up the area and the contamination. With that, there was a lot of interaction with the local public, any neighbors in the area, the city, and the state. I realized I really enjoyed that aspect of it. I really liked the communications aspect of it.
I decided that I wanted to go back to school. I got my master's degree in public relations at State University in Detroit. I decided, can I go on a slightly different career path? I realized after being at GM for a while that if I wanted to go into that career path, I needed it to change. I left GM and went and worked for an environmental company. I was still in the environmental field, doing more marketing and communications. That's how I learned marketing, communications, and advocacy, and some of that type of work.
That's fascinating. My older son is an environmental engineer. This has been a tough time in this political environment to be an environmental engineer. He is so passionate about it. He basically started wanting to do this for his life. I found a book in his bed. It was The Lorax, and that's been his theme book his whole life, that it takes one person to fix things. He would write ideas of how to fix the Earth in this little journal. Passionate in that same way. He's had a really great experience of getting out and doing some of those things, going into urban areas to try to help with changing over to environmental vehicles, and how that planning would look for that help in those areas.
That's very cool. Hopefully, he sticks with it because there's a lot for it out there.
Career Shift: From Consulting To Association Leadership
With that, was it a consulting company that you’re in?
Yeah, it was like an environmental management consulting company. Again, it was a great experience there. A lot of things, sometimes just a new opportunity, just fall into your lap. I had the opportunity to leave that company. I went and worked for a trade association in the robotics and automation industry. Similarly, I started as director of communications, but like any smaller association, you wear a lot of hats.
I had the opportunity to work with membership, the board of directors, and governance. We actually started an association in Mexico, where I figured out how to do and got to travel to Mexico a lot, which was awesome. I love Mexico. That's where I worked for an association. I know a lot of association individuals, not only across all the CPA societies, but also in every state that has a CPA association. We collaborate, we network.
It's a fantastic group of people that I get to work with, but also, there's an association for everything. When you talk to people who work for associations, it's not like you don't go to college to want to work for an association. You don't get a degree in associations, but you somehow find your way there, and they're fantastic organizations to work for.
Culture: You don’t go to college to get a degree in associations—you somehow find your way there and they’re fantastic organizations to work for
I work in the robotics industry. Certainly, I was a lot into automotive and that thing. I ended up being vice president of communications and advocacy there. Here at MICPA, my predecessor was getting ready to retire. I always had the goal. I've always been like a student of leadership. I've always really enjoyed learning about leadership and studying it, and I've always had the goal of leading an organization one day.
I dusted off my resume, got my hat in the ring, and went through the pretty extensive executive search process, and was blessed and honored to be selected as the next CEO of MICPA. I started on February 24th, 2020. The end of my third week was when the world shut down because of COVID. That's certainly a challenging time, but now it's been over five years.
That's crazy. I cannot believe you've been there for five years.
I know it's gone fast. I didn't know a lot about the accounting profession. I knew a little bit and then had some connections with a couple of CPA firms in the area that were actually involved in the robotics industry. A fire hose learned a lot. COVID required change, and it allowed us to change quickly. My predecessor, Peggy, was fantastic, a great leader for decades. I was certainly set up for success, but things changed quickly, and we've been adjusting and figuring it out ever since. I think we all are, right?
Leading Through Crisis: COVID-19 And Organizational Change
Yeah. It's actually a blessing too with COVID for you starting that role, because, especially coming in when your predecessor has been there for so long and there was so much change that had to happen. You didn't have to probably push it as hard as you would have had COVID not happened. You had to immediately start leading.
I would never wish a global pandemic. It was really good timing because there was probably a chance that, like any new person coming into a role, usually you might have several months to a year to figure it out, but we had to figure it out quickly. As I mentioned, there are about 30 of us here at MICPA, a fantastic team. Many of them have been here a long time, twenty-plus years, actually, celebrating a twenty-year anniversary. Some have been here for 25 years, and they have embraced the change, which has been awesome.
What would you say coming from the automotive world and corporate world, the environmental world consulting, what are some of the things you've learned about making that transition to associations and leading in that way? How is it different than where you came from? What skills still apply?
I would say no matter where you are, and this could really apply everywhere. It's a people business. Maybe even more so in associations because you rely on volunteers so much. You have a volunteer board, and you have volunteers who are super engaged and involved. It's really about the people business of encouraging, of listening. That was actually one of the things I wanted to start, not coming from the profession.
Culture: No matter where you are, it's a people business.
I had this 90-day plan where I was going to get out, go all over the state, meet our members, listen to them, and learn from them. How can we better serve them? I ended up having a lot of Zoom calls originally, but we're still doing it here. We are five years later. We developed these on-the-road sessions where we go all over, host them at different places, and get our members to come. We used to call it a professional issues update, but now we call it the coolest profession update around.
As you can see on my board, the CPA stands for the Coolest Profession Around. We have completely embraced that. In many other state societies, we share and collaborate a lot. We've been embracing the coolest profession around to change what people think of CPAs. I think, really, it is a people business. Also, I've thought a lot about this. I said, “You don't use your engineering degree at all.” I'm like, “Actually, I use it every day.” One great thing about an engineering degree, and certainly, I would say an accounting degree as well, is that it teaches you how to look at a problem and solve it.
That's really a lot of what I do, which is solving problems. I might not be involved in water chemistry or wastewater treatment or air quality anymore, but I certainly use my engineering education all the time in the way I look at problems, and also the way I look at leading and leadership as well, because I learned how important culture is. A lot of what I do is building culture and developing culture. Our core values are something that I think resonates well with the profession, too.
Leadership & Problem-Solving: The Engineering Mindset
That's a really interesting observation about the problem-solving of engineering. Do you have a process that you go through that would be helpful to others to understand what that looks like for you?
Frankly, it's like the scientific method, which is where you get data, analyze the data in what's called a hypothesis, and in science or engineering, which is like maybe how you hope that perhaps if you study a problem, you want it to come out. Create a solution, implement the solution, and then see how it responds or if it works or not. If it doesn't, maybe adjust the dials a little bit and try again. That's one thing, especially as we had to change quickly because of COVID.
I encourage our team, “Let's just try new things.” Maybe not all are going to be successful. I don't like using the word failure. Maybe it didn't respond or we didn't get the results we had hoped, but we learned from it, and let's use that learning to adjust and move forward and come up with perhaps a different solution. I would say that's the scientific method that I guess I still use, don't really think about it in that way, but I still use it every day.
Culture: Try new things—maybe not all are going to be successful, but we learn from it and move forward.
It's in you. Are there cultural shifts that you try to make that you would suggest that others work with as well, that they're watching out for, or trying to implement, or looking at their own organization to assess it?
We have three cultural pillars here that I talk about a lot, and that's joy, trust, and innovation. I learned all three through different speakers and different books that we can get into. I purposely put trust in the middle because you need trust in order to really have a team, develop a team, to build that trust within the team, but also we're in the trust business. CPAs and accountants are certainly in the trust business.
We say it's one of the most trusted businesses, but CPAs are their most trusted advisor to their clients or to their businesses if they work for a business. We're in the trust business, and our members, our CPAs across the state, trust that we're providing them the tools and the resources that they need. At the same time, within the staff, we need to make sure that in order for us to build that trust with our members, we first need to have that trust and build that trust with each other.
There's a lot of it in its communication. Trust is like a currency. You can build it, but you can lose it pretty quickly, and then you have to rebuild it again. It's something you're always working on. Culture, I think, is something you're always working on. You're never done. The last one, innovation piece, maybe that comes a little bit from my engineering background, but innovation, I feel like it's a word, like people hear innovation, they're like, “It's like startup companies,” or “It's in laboratories,” or something like that.
I like to think of it as everyday innovation. We can all be creative, we can all be innovative. We're being creative and innovative in everything we do, and all the new things we try, and even the conference that you spoke at, Elevate, a few months ago, we completely re-imagined that. There are tons of innovations going on in that, and we're still trying new things and building it.
I love to encourage that innovation. The first one is joy. Joy is my favorite word. I feel like you don't have real joy in the workplace. We want to have joy in the workplace. We celebrate joy. We have a joy team's channel that we celebrate like our successes, our wins, but also like joy inside the workplace where we enjoy each other's company, build, do team builders, and that thing.
We just did our annual Tigers game last week, where we went to a weekday afternoon Detroit Tigers game, which was a lot of fun, but also joy at home. Also, it's not like joy and happiness are different. Sometimes joy could have an honest negative emotion, but it's like the roses and thorns. You'd certainly be grateful for the roses, but also be grateful for the thorns as well. That's where you have the opportunity to learn from it too. Those are the cultures that I like to talk about joy, trust, and innovation.
Workplace Culture: Joy, Trust & Innovation
Interesting. I literally just launched a new keynote called The Fulfillment ROI, which is based on exactly what you're talking about. When people come to me individually after I speak or coach, the one thing that they say is, ‘I've lost my joy. How do I get it back?” That's a process, and that's individual work because it's like an organization, and I think it's so important what you're talking about is operationalizing it. Each individual has to find it within themselves as well. You cannot force joy. You can just create the framework and the structure for it as well. In the work that I've done, I have finally come up with metrics for it and what I've seen with organizations that shift it in their workplace, and how much, in firms that I've worked with, doubled revenue, and gotten busy season hours down to 45 hours a week. It's not just a soft idea. It is a real business imperative.
I 100% agree. You're right. I cannot force joy around here in the office, but hopefully I can cultivate it and allow for joy. When I've talked to others about this, it's like, “I've never really thought about that before, but it makes sense.” It really does. You don't want to come into work and be a drag every day.
You need to cultivate that joy. Hopefully, we have joy with each other and enjoy working together, enjoying working with our members, and how we're impacting the profession. Certainly, hopefully, that brings joy outside the workplace too. The work-life integration, as I call it. I don't like calling it work-life balance because when you're balancing, you're teetering. I encourage work-life integration where it's work, it's life.
Culture: Work-life integration is better than work-life balance because when you’re balancing you’re kind of teetering.
Sometimes life might need you to do something in the middle of the day. That's good. Go do it. Don't miss your kids' school activity or anything like that. We actually seem to be dealing with a lot of elderly parents' issues around here, which is just that time of the season many of us are in. “If you have to take care of those things, take care of those.” Work in life, they need to be integrated in order to find joy in both, rather than like that balance and trying to balance, and then if you're balancing, you're always unsteady.
Energy is contagious. As you said, if you're coming in dragging, that's going to be contagious to the next person. It really is a responsibility of being intentional about how you want to feel so that you can cultivate it with your teammates, mentors, but also in your work. Even the things that maybe you don't love to do in your work, you can remember why you do it. It provides the other joy.
Remembering your why is very important.
Work-Life Integration: Being Present As A Parent
Now, being a father yourself and having talked about your father, you said he was very present with you, and I cannot even imagine what he was balancing between a full-time job and five children. What have you taken into your own personal life from his example?
I guess it's very similar. I always want to be there. Both my kids are pretty active in sports, and I coach my youngest son in baseball. Being there and being a coach, I love, actually, it's one of my favorite things I do when I'm on the baseball field, either at practice or in a game. I'm not thinking about anything else. That's what I love about it. They also play hockey. I play hockey, I skate and everything, but I don't coach hockey, but I love being in the stands and being there for them.
Culture: Remembering your why is very important.
I'm similar to that. I'm going to leave early just to make sure I can get home and help my son with his homework before my other son's hockey practice. I guess that's the presence that I want to show. I do travel a decent amount. I'm to be gone a little bit when I'm on one of my on-the-road trips. It's not ideal, but it's part of my role. I do need to travel at times. When I do, like even last week when I was gone, I was FaceTimeing with my son to help him with his math homework.
I still try to be present even if I have to do it at a distance. That’s that, but then also hopefully, like I mentioned, my faith is very important to me, and trying to instill that and be a leader for that for my family and for my kids as well. I would say being there, being present. They're starting to enter the teenage years, being there for them as they continue to grow and turn into young adults, and it's fun, it's wonderful. Every stage has been awesome.
I like every stage. Actually, now I'm getting into golf. We've been golfing a lot this past summer, and I just love hanging out on the golf course and golfing with my kids. I looked ahead, and I was like, “Man, that's something we could do like my dad.” He's 84 years old, and I love golfing with him. I guess those would be the things that I've tried to do, or hopefully I'm doing a decent job of.
I just think of those years of my kids growing up, being a busy CPA, and trying to make it to everything. Even when I was there, I will admit I wasn't present all the time because I was stressed out or worried about something not getting done or a client issue or whatever. Is there a process that you do to get yourself completely present where you're not thinking about, even if it comes in how you can, and not maybe 100% of the time? I think that's the hardest thing. We can put it on our calendar, but then, when we're actually there, are we focused?
I'll admit I'm probably not very good at it. That's something I need to remind myself of because I very much encourage my team, make sure when they're home, especially if they're on vacation or whatever, to not email, do not be on their phones for work-related reasons. I don't do a very good job of that myself, I'll readily admit. There are times when I need to make sure, for example, actually just earlier this week, it's been a while since we had all sat down to have actually had a family dinner, just because we're always going in so many different directions.
It was wonderful. It's great just to sit down and eat. My kids have their phones, but put them away. My wife and I will put away our phones, and we can just catch up and talk about how your school day went, what's going on, and what's going on this week. I probably need to be better at it, but I do try to be intentional about it.
Health & Habits: A Rapid-Fire Q&A
It's just the human struggle, but with so many demands. The nice part about the phones is that we can work, and I call it harmony, work-life integration, but it's also the distraction that keeps us from being present when we're there. It's a back-and-forth. I would love to end with just some rapid-fire questions. You pick a category, family and friends, money, spiritual, or health.
I like talking about all of them. Money. We talk about accounting. It's the language of business. Something that's particularly been on my mind recently is health. Let's talk about.
Things are actions I don't have that I want to have with my health.
This is the thing. One of my outlets that I love to do is run. However, over the last couple of months, I've been dealing with some plantar fasciitis, which I've never had before in my life. I'll be honest, at first, I started getting this heel pain. I didn't even know what it was. Finally, I've actually been trying to do different home methods and that thing.
It's been a struggle because I haven't been able to run. I haven't run in probably two months now. That's where I find I love to run, particularly in the morning. That's where I can clear my mind. I think well when I run. I miss it. I've also probably put on a couple of pounds too since then because, traveling and everything, it's hard to always eat well. I'm determined to fix it. I am going to a doctor to try to figure it out because I basically gave up.
I’m trying to do it on my own. I need help. I'm the one who's saying you should always get help if you need it, particularly counseling or anything. I was probably slow to go to the doctor because I just thought I could either deal with it or my home remedies would fix it. It hasn't worked. I guess I should take my own lesson and get it fixed so I can get back to not being in pain when I'm walking and being able to run again.
Fun getting older. Things or actions I do have that I want to keep with my health.
One of the things that I have been doing for quite a few years now is I like to fast. I'm intermittent faster. That's really worked for me. I like it a lot. I definitely want to continue doing that. Again, sometimes it's harder than others, but fasting and when there are different methods, but maybe you might be 16, 8, or whatever. That's something I definitely want to continue. I feel like it does help maintain, not only weight-wise, but also, I feel like it helps me maintain focus too when I fast. That's what I definitely want to continue and maintain.
Things or actions that I don't have that I don't want with my health.
I'm pretty good at not eating too many sweets. Sometimes ice cream or something like that, but I don't want that, especially if I haven't been getting as much exercise. I don't want that to come back and extra calories, I guess. That's what I want to make sure that I don't do that.
I wish I had that. Chocolate's my downfall for sure.
It's tough.
Things or actions that I do have that I don't want.
I say I fast, but sometimes even if I just eat, I'll just eat one meal a day. I probably overeat at that meal. I need to be more focused on eating more of a reasonable meal, or maybe I should eat two smaller meals a day rather than just one big one, or something like that. Also, I guess when I travel, sometimes it's hard in a restaurant, you have a big meal and probably don't need to eat at all, but it was instilled in me as a kid that you clear your plate. Also, probably something else too is eating, maybe what my kids don't eat. I don't need those chicken fingers that they didn't eat. Those are things that I don't want.
Closing Thoughts: Gratitude and Reflection
Is there anything that, as we close up, you want to share that we haven't shared or that you want to reiterate as we close up this conversation?
I almost forgot you were recording this. I thought this was just a conversation between us. No, I mean, I came into this like I didn't realize I was going to go right into my childhood and stuff, but it was a really nice conversation. Obviously, you're creating work-life harmony. What I said about work-life integration really is aligned.
I guess one thing I didn't mention is that I also find it very helpful for me, I'm a morning person. I wake up pretty early, and I have a routine that I enjoy. Certainly on days I work, but even weekend days or where I spend time in prayer and my faith, and some devotionals and reading the Bible, and that thing. Also, I learned this some years ago, that I journal a little bit.
It's more of just what happened the day before, and I still have a journal. Also, I think back on the last 24 hours, and I write down what I was grateful for and the attitude of gratitude. I mentioned the dinner I had with my family the night before, like the next morning, I was thinking about it, “I was really grateful we were able to do that.” I mentioned that sometimes it's hard to be grateful for something. Sometimes it's okay to be grateful for the negative things, or as I mentioned, the thorns, like you can be grateful for the roses, but also be grateful for the thorns, because that's where you grow from and that's where you learn from.
Culture: Be grateful for the roses, but also the thorns, because that's where you grow and learn.
I guess that routine is what centers me for the day and gets me ready for the day. People do it differently. People are not morning people, which is fantastic. If you're not a morning person, maybe you do it in the evening before you go to bed or something like that. Everyone can find their own way of a little bit of a reflection, a little bit of preparing for either that day or the next day. The journaling has certainly helped me.
That's important to have a routine that you can disconnect for a moment and just go internal, and especially remember things that maybe you forgot happened in the day. It can be little things, just like the sun came out. It doesn't have to be huge things. Those things at that moment of like, “This feels good.” Thank you for sharing that routine, and thank you for sharing your story. You'll also have to listen to Alicia Gelinas[1] from Colorado CPA. She lost her parents very young, and she told her story on the podcast, too.
Alicia's fantastic. As I said, we collaborate a lot with all the state societies. Not only the staff, but particularly the CEOs. I've got to know Alicia, but we haven't shared that, I guess. Next time I see her, I'll have to listen to it, and then we'll have to have, I'm sure, a heartfelt chat.
It's always those things that we don't necessarily know about people that make them more human. Thank you for sharing your story. I really appreciate it.
You're welcome, Amy. Thanks for the opportunity.
---
Mindful Moments: Key Takeaways & Actionable Insights
For my mindful moments with this conversation that I had with Bob Doyle. I so appreciate when guests show up ready to share their story, and Bob definitely did with beginning this conversation, starting about the passing of his mother when he was a young boy, and the effect that it had on him, and his transparency and vulnerability about going to therapy and how important grief counseling was for him.
Also, at different points in his life, therapy has helped. I think for all of us, this transparency is really important because just like taking care of our bodies, we have to take care of our brains. Talk therapy's real. With the right therapist who is trained and is the type of therapy that you're looking for, because there are so many different types of therapists, it's important to spend that time to just assess what's going on inside of you, because it does affect your physical health as well when you're not doing that.
The other thing that we talked about was his father and how his father took on so much responsibility when his mother unfortunately passed away, having five kids between the ages of 6 and 14, and still working full time. That was so important in this conversation about how we go about this when we've got so much on our plates. I can only imagine how stressed out his father was during this time.
The few things that Bob remembers about his father that were such a good example for him and what he's taken into his life are the consistency his dad showed, even having a full-time job and four other children besides Bob, that he always showed up at his events. He really was routine-oriented, where faith was a big piece of Bob's upbringing. Whatever that might be for you, whether that's spirituality or not, it doesn't matter what the belief is.
Where you have that time of self-reflection and stillness, which prayer gives you, meditation gives you, sometimes working out can give you as well, that is all spirituality. Being that example as an adult, you just don't realize until your kids get older how much that trickles down to them. On the contrary, when we're too busy and we're not present, that also affects their behaviors of not being present as well, and maybe who they are as an adult.
It is really important to think about the effects of how we show up and show up with intentionality so that we do not intend to make someone else feel unimportant. We're all living our lives and walking in our own bodies and lives. The thing is that someone is going to take that as they're going to take it, how they're feeling. As children, it's important that we are the role model of not only how we want to show up, but the example of how we want them to show up, not just saying the words, but actually living them as well.
That goes the same for leadership. It's very hard when there's messaging and values that are said, but the leaders aren't living that. When the leaders aren't living it, the staff doesn't believe it, and therefore, it doesn't actually permeate into the culture. It's so important that if we are putting out initiatives or the way that we want our culture to be, the leader, yourself, maybe your colleague, is also demonstrating that in their behavior, so that it actually occurs in the organization. We also talked about his shift in his career from environmental engineering to association work.
The interesting shifts that he had along the way of really observing as he got deeper into the environmental work of the advocacy work that he was doing with the public, he really enjoyed that and went back to school for it. I think that's a really important lesson of just that lifetime learning. When we notice that we're really interested in something, then taking that beat, that step, that pause in our life and going to learn more about what that is either determines a different pathway for you, or maybe you decide it's not for you by going deeper in the learning.
The growth of ourselves is what creates joy for us because it gives us something to look forward to. It gives us something to motivate. Even when we're the muck of it, we might have a ton of homework, and it's hard. The thing is, our brain is growing and we're feeding it. We're feeding it with information. As our brain processes, we are able to integrate that to decide where we want to go.
That really led to a career shift for him, going into association work. I asked him what his experiences outside of what he does now have helped him with the work that he does. The number one thing that he said is that no matter where you are, it's a people business. Being there to encourage, to listen, to learn. All of those things of being present, the things that we talked about about his dad, those are the same things that are important, no matter what organization you're with.
At the end of the day, we are human beings, and we need to be seen, we need to be heard. When someone else shows up ready to listen, ready to hear you, and shows that you matter, then your trust in them builds even further. We also talked about how his engineering background helped him as he goes into new roles. We talked about the scientific method of engineering, of gathering data, analyzing the data, and coming up with a hypothesis based on that data, and developing different options or solutions to test before you actually implement them organizationally.
Also, just that curiosity of responding to what happens once you start innovating it, and how you might shift and change to keep making it better over time. Lastly, we talked about these cultural pillars that he has really utilized to create the culture in the organization that he's with. The first one is joy. We had a long discussion about joy, that joy is an energy, and we want to have that in the workplace because it is contagious.
It's important that we find ways for people to find joy in their work, to celebrate maybe their personal wins, their professional wins, and also where they're finding joy at home as well. We want our work to be able to benefit outside of our work as well, so that we can increase our joy. The second one is trust. Trust is so important because if we don't have trust on a team, then what happens is that most initiatives fail because everyone is out for themselves, doesn't believe in the others, and building that trust is so important.
One of the biggest things with trust is communication. I can tell you, hands down, in the organizations that I go to, the number one issue is that no one is communicating. There are things worth thinking about. There are assumptions we make about why someone did something that they did, but often, we're not actually communicating it and having the conversation. That is the way we build trust, by having those transparent conversations, so we can build each other up as a team.
The third pillar was innovation and really understanding the little things you can innovate each day. It doesn't have to be large things, but what things can you try, what things can you get curious about in order to keep getting better every day? Even if it's just a centimeter, an inch, it doesn't matter. It's that you acknowledge it and observe it as you go.
There are so many great stories that Bob shared in here, and I so appreciate the fact that he was so vulnerable and transparent with his life story in order to not only be more relatable as a human who has gone through human things, but also that we learn from these stories as well. If you're feeling overwhelmed or looking for a more structured way to create that work-life harmony that we do at the B3 Method Institute, we have a free workbook that will help you with proven exercises. Reflections that you can do, and just help you build that foundation for lasting change.
If you go to BusinessBalanceBliss.com and find the workbook there, you'll be able to download it right from our site and start your process of not feeling overwhelmed. Maybe finding those things that bring you more joy so that your energy can be contagious and intentional, and the way that you show up at work or at home. Thank you for listening. Thank you for subscribing to this show. Thank you for sharing this show. I so appreciate this community that follows us and is just growing together to learn from these stories, so we can all get better.
Important Links
About Bob Doyle
Bob Doyle is President and CEO of the Michigan Association of Certified Public Accountants (MICPA), serving in that capacity since early 2020. With over 17,500 members representing the organization in accounting, finance, administration and education, Bob continues the MICPA’s long-standing mission of serving its members and the accounting profession through advocacy, collaboration and education.
Bob holds a B.S. in Environmental Engineering, a M.S. in Engineering Management, and a M.A. in Public Relations & Organizational Communication. His education and experience provide him a unique perspective on both human and technological issues, one which he has successfully leveraged throughout his career. He was previously Vice President of Marketing, Communications and Advocacy at the Association for Advancing Automation (A3) in Ann Arbor, a not-for-profit robotics and automation focused trade. Prior to his work at A3, Bob was the marketing and communications manager at the Environmental Quality Company after progressing through several engineering roles at General Motors.
Active in the community, Bob currently serves on the board of the Michigan Society of Association Executives. He is also a member of the Detroit Regional Chamber’s 2022 Leadership Detroit Class XLII. He is on the external advisory board of the Pavlis Honors College at Michigan Technological University, as well as the executive advisory board of Winning Futures. He also mentors high school students through the Winning Futures program. Bob previously served on the board of Lighthouse (formerly South Oakland Shelter).